Viva Obama! El Presidente!

[Silva]

Ok, did you check the McCain supporters to see why they wanted McCain? What did they say?

[Red14]

I'm a black Obama supporter, and I know why I supported him. Anyway, I do agree with Zandyne, a lot of people were swept up in the hype, but there were still a large number of people who actually had reasons to support him, like myself. I do agree that it won't be perfect, and Barack semi admitted that, but hey, he's trying to improve life for those lower on the totem pole so I have no qualms with problems. I doubt that he has not thought about the things you mentioned though Zandyne, it has seemed that years ago he dreamed of this kind of America, given that amount of time I doubt that he didn't consider and come up with a way to address it. All in all, I think he will be able to get some of his things done, but not everything.

I think a large part of Barack's message that seems to have gone largely unnoticed is that he wants to change both how the society runs, and how the individual runs. He wants to educate children so the cycles of endless poverty we see today can be lessened. He wants families to spend more time together so that they are less likely to become social deviants, he really wants to help all qualities of life... or so it appears anyway. I'm not too sure how he'll do this, but he probably has something planned.

In general, I'm pretty exited, but trying to be realistic.

[zandyne]

The overall standing they had was that Obama is too young and unknown for such a job, some people said they would have actually supported Obama in the future because it is just too soon for someone like him (in the experience sense not the "oh god history cannot brace for this"). They also seemed to be for the most part the older students of the class.

Some were surprisingly Democrats who were a bit miffed that Hillary was bumped off by Obama, did research into him and were even more miffed that someone who had no known history (except for apparently his own books...) had kicked off someone who knew what the hell was going on. They also mentioned something about new-voters for Obama being bum-rushed into the primaries, which while technically not underhanded they felt cheated by it.

There was also the handful from the handful that were clearly just loyal-conservatives. (I say handful because McCain was supported by the minority in our class. c_c)

[Silva]

So that means overall nobody knew the actual platforms or positions of either candidate?

[zandyne]

Nov 6, 2008 0:44:28 GMT -5 Silva said:

So that means overall nobody knew the actual platforms or positions of either candidate?

What is means is that McCain had a readily accessible history, experience and wasn't going to tax the hell out of them during a recession. What created distrust for the McCain supporters I have already previously listed to you.

All that the Obama supporters knew was what he looked like and that his campaign was "Change" but they had no inkling as to what or how he was going to change things. As I have stated before some knew one or even two of what he was proposing and supported it but of those less than ten people the others were uninformed and were not motivated to become informed yet convicted to their vote.

It's not wrong of them to decide like that but it's far from wise.

[Silva]

It just seemed that people only supported McCain because they didn't like Obama

[zandyne]

Nov 6, 2008 0:55:53 GMT -5 Silva said:

It just seemed that people only supported McCain because they didn't like Obama

I hate to sound like I'm accusing you of something but I just told you: They felt that Obama was too YOUNG, INEXPERIENCED AND UNKNOWN for the job. It's not a matter of LIKE/DISLIKE it was a matter of who was better fit for the job. Looking pretty is not a requirement of the job and while being a good orator is always a plus it does not automatically make all their policies good ones.

As to Red14, the US is not short on opportunities, it is completely and utterly possible to make a living and to have a better life, just because it doesn't start immediately doesn't mean the system isn't working. Happy lives aren't just pulled out of nowhere, you have to work hard for them and not just for a few months it can TAKE YEARS. It's a matter of the individual having conviction and the willingness to strive for their dream of a golden life, giving out handouts doesn't make lives easier it just spits on all the other people who have worked hard to earn theirs.

"Give a man a fish you feed him for a day teach a man to fish and you fee him for life."

Handouts are NOT the answer. And although not every school is pristine, perfect and pretty those who want to persevere will persevere. Everyone being able to live a happy life is delightful ideal but this is reality and not everyone will be able to have everything they want by just doing the bare minimum. But I'll stop there because I sound like I'm giving a horrible lecture. c_c

[Red14]

But that's what I'm SAYING

He wants to instill those attributes in the American people by supporting things like better education, and better healthcare. He wants MORE people to BELIEVE that they can persevere.

[Silva]

Nov 6, 2008 1:04:22 GMT -5 zandyne said:

I hate to sound like I'm accusing you of something but I just told you: They felt that Obama was too YOUNG, INEXPERIENCED AND UNKNOWN for the job. It's not a matter of LIKE/DISLIKE it was a matter of who was better fit for the job. Looking pretty is not a requirement of the job and while being a good orator is always a plus it does not automatically make all their policies good ones.

That's kinda what I was talking about, it looks like a lot of your McCain supporters really would vote not for McCain, but rather against Obama due to his lack of experience, age, etc.

[zandyne]

Nov 6, 2008 1:11:04 GMT -5 Red14 said:

But that's what I'm SAYING

He wants to instill those attributes in the American people by supporting things like better education, and better healthcare. He wants MORE people to BELIEVE that they can persevere.

You don't need a president to instill better education, in fact what you need are motivators for kids to stay in school, promoting handouts will only do the opposite of this. As for health-care we need a better system for it overall so I won't touch that (also I can't think of a single politician who's never suggested something about improving health-care the only difference is of who gets the joy of paying for it).

Has Obama even said HOW he plans to support better education aside from throwing more money at it? Pumping more money into the technology of schools or into the building of schools does not generate better education, TEACHERS WHO CAN TEACH DO and that is a student-teacher basis. The high-school graduation rate is terrible as it is and in fact in most cases for public schools the states themselves distribute funding for it, that's what you get taxed for. Some people just can't motivate themselves to work and that's just how they are.

But if Obama does have a better outline for education that I haven't heard of please link or otherwise direct me to it. I would love to be more informed.

[Subtle]

www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/11/05/palin-didnt-know-africa-i_n_141653.html

To steer back to the topic of Palin and her qualifications, this is what Bill Riley and Fox News have to say on the subject.

Obama, McCain and Biden are far more politician than normal people. They see dollar signs, they see laws, they see codes. Yes, they see people, but only with the rest as lenses. Palin brought a reality to a lot of people, a feeling of someone they could relate to.

So how is it that Palin has more experience, but she is still a normal person. Shes been in the game for 14 years compared to Barack's 8 or so. If she dosen't see laws and speak the code by then, its more likely to be ignorance than a normal person's eye.

[Teh Donut]

Only 9% of voters considered race an important issue. It was still an issue.

I'm tired of all this political crap. I've had to put up with it at work and school enough as it is; I'd rather go on complaining about the sorry state of affairs for the next four years like I've always done...though now, at least I have a right to complain.

Also, I suggest you all watch yourselves; should the debating, berating, and insulting continue, I'm closing and archiving this thread without any further warning. If you're going to discuss, then discuss. Opinions are opinions, and whether or not you agree, your are required to respect them.

By the way, congratulations on a perfectly placed troll, Subtle. Very effective.

*edit* (Not referencing your latest post, which was made after I started posting my reply)

So how is it that Palin has more experience, but she is still a normal person. Shes been in the game for 14 years compared to Barack's 8 or so. If she dosen't see laws and speak the code by then, its more likely to be ignorance than a normal person's eye.

Show me any other politician who goes to the polling place in a hoodie and jeans, and who is such a common sight among the people that they don't giver her presence a second thought. Then I'll show you a normal person.

[Subtle]

Nov 6, 2008 1:33:58 GMT -5 Teh Donut said:

Only 9% of voters considered race an important

I find that 9%, however debatable it is, is too much. I know many people that supported him baised on issues, and many people who voted mccain just beacuse he was black or inexperienced. I know people who's like of his policys was heavily exagerated beacuse he was black, and I know people for whom it was not an issue at all. There are many shades of grey in this.

Individuals decided for individual reasons.

Nov 6, 2008 1:33:58 GMT -5 Teh Donut said:

By the way, congratulations on a perfectly placed troll, Subtle. Very effective.

Thank you

. I didn't intend to troll anyone by making this thread, but at the same time I knew that this community can't talk about politics civily

[Subtle]

Nov 6, 2008 1:33:58 GMT -5 Teh Donut said:

Show me any other politician who goes to the polling place in a hoodie and jeans, and who is such a common sight among the people that they don't giver her presence a second thought. Then I'll show you a normal person.

That is a very good point, but there is a heavy possibility of it being staged. Wearing the hoodie and jeans sends a message, and CNN and a dozen photographers don't show up to every polling place.

[Teh Donut]

Please note that it is CNN and a dozen out of state photographers who are making such a big deal of it. Those of us who, you know, actually see her every day know just how plain and down to earth she really is.